Author Topic: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved  (Read 369 times)

GothicChessInventor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 09:27:24 pm by GothicChessInventor »

ebinola

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Location: nowhere in particular
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2018, 12:18:34 pm »
Mate in 16.

2. ... Ke7 (just a heads up, I might not be as active as I'd like to be).

I can only imagine that LE+K vs. K is like A+K vs. K but a bit more difficult (and boring).
Off-topic, but about K+U vs. K - that's a draw, surely? I've done some stuff with K+U+B and K+U+N vs. K, but the hawk endgames have got me wondering.
Chess player, amateur writer and on the side shitposter extraordinaire.

GothicChessInventor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 03:37:50 pm »
1. Lf7 Kd7
2. Kb7 Ke7
3. Le5

Mate in 15



The Unicorn endings only have mate in 1 positions that black must walk into. All other positions are draws.

ebinola

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Location: nowhere in particular
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2018, 09:03:13 pm »
3.... Ke6

Kd8 is instant mate, which leads me to suspect that that's the kind of position White wants to get to as soon as Black can't hold out any longer.
Chess player, amateur writer and on the side shitposter extraordinaire.

GothicChessInventor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2018, 11:39:48 pm »


1. Lf7 Kd7
2. Kb7 Ke7
3. Le5 Ke6
4. Lc4

Mate in 14

You've made the best defensive moves so far.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 11:41:54 pm by GothicChessInventor »

ebinola

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Location: nowhere in particular
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2018, 12:59:56 pm »
4. ...Kf5

I'm not so sure where this is going but here goes nothing.
Chess player, amateur writer and on the side shitposter extraordinaire.

GothicChessInventor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2018, 10:00:39 pm »


1. Lf7 Kd7
2. Kb7 Ke7
3. Le5 Ke6
4. Lc4 Kf5
5. Kc6

Mate in 13.

You're playing it as it should be defended.

ebinola

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Location: nowhere in particular
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2018, 04:03:32 pm »
5. ...Ke4
Chess player, amateur writer and on the side shitposter extraordinaire.

GothicChessInventor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2018, 05:42:11 pm »
1. Lf7 Kd7
2. Kb7 Ke7
3. Le5 Ke6
4. Lc4 Kf5
5. Kc6 Ke4
6. Kc5



Mate in 12
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 07:51:57 pm by GothicChessInventor »

ebinola

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Location: nowhere in particular
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2018, 06:17:53 pm »
6. ...Kf4
Chess player, amateur writer and on the side shitposter extraordinaire.

GothicChessInventor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2018, 07:51:27 pm »
1. Lf7 Kd7
2. Kb7 Ke7
3. Le5 Ke6
4. Lc4 Kf5
5. Kc6 Ke4
6. Kc5 Kf4
7. Kd4

Mate in 11



HGMuller

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2018, 05:34:46 am »
I don't know if this is helpful, but I have a primitive EGT generator that can do 3- and 4-men EGT on arbitrary boards, which I use to determine which fairy pieces have mating potential. It prints the DTM statistics of the end-game. I let it run on some of the Musketeer KXK end-games:

Cannon:
        mated    mate
King captures 69384
mates    1752         ( 0.00 sec)
in-1     3564    9360 ( 0.01 sec)
in-2    11280   15064 ( 0.03 sec)
in-3    18592   30388 ( 0.05 sec)
in-4    34552   32112 ( 0.09 sec)
in-5    41032   36048 ( 0.11 sec)
in-6    46660   32284 ( 0.16 sec)
in-7    34932   22216 ( 0.17 sec)
in-8     8676    3064 ( 0.19 sec)
in-9      388      64 ( 0.19 sec)
in-10       0       0 ( 0.19 sec)
won:     249984 (100.0%)
lost:    201428 ( 80.6%)
avg:        5.1 moves

Hawk:
        mated    mate
King captures 58920
mates      16         ( 0.01 sec)
in-1        8     104 ( 0.01 sec)
in-2       64      88 ( 0.01 sec)
in-3       48     456 ( 0.01 sec)
in-4      400     504 ( 0.01 sec)
in-5      368    1824 ( 0.03 sec)
in-6      740    1800 ( 0.03 sec)
in-7      508    2532 ( 0.03 sec)
in-8      984    2076 ( 0.03 sec)
in-9      932    3048 ( 0.03 sec)
in-10    1004    2224 ( 0.05 sec)
in-11     720    2460 ( 0.05 sec)
in-12     816    2248 ( 0.05 sec)
in-13    1656    2584 ( 0.05 sec)
in-14    2804    4132 ( 0.06 sec)
in-15    3432    5804 ( 0.06 sec)
in-16    4436    6668 ( 0.08 sec)
in-17    5608    8196 ( 0.08 sec)
in-18    9460   10284 ( 0.09 sec)
in-19    8008   15180 ( 0.11 sec)
in-20   10792   11952 ( 0.13 sec)
in-21   16248   15952 ( 0.14 sec)
in-22   23676   22932 ( 0.16 sec)
in-23   28688   25796 ( 0.19 sec)
in-24   34720   21480 ( 0.22 sec)
in-25   26236   13024 ( 0.23 sec)
in-26   13976    5880 ( 0.25 sec)
in-27    4852    1712 ( 0.25 sec)
in-28     448     124 ( 0.27 sec)
in-29       0       0 ( 0.27 sec)
won:     249984 (100.0%)
lost:    201648 ( 80.7%)
avg:       21.8 moves

Elephant:
        mated    mate
King captures 68076
mates     124         ( 0.00 sec)
in-1      260     580 ( 0.01 sec)
in-2      568    1136 ( 0.01 sec)
in-3      776    2496 ( 0.01 sec)
in-4     1920    3192 ( 0.01 sec)
in-5     3708    6268 ( 0.03 sec)
in-6     7692    9644 ( 0.03 sec)
in-7    14604   16620 ( 0.06 sec)
in-8    25016   25784 ( 0.09 sec)
in-9    37796   35868 ( 0.13 sec)
in-10   47620   42068 ( 0.16 sec)
in-11   43736   30688 ( 0.19 sec)
in-12   16764    7472 ( 0.20 sec)
in-13     400      92 ( 0.20 sec)
in-14       0       0 ( 0.20 sec)
won:     249984 (100.0%)
lost:    200984 ( 80.4%)
avg:        9.4 moves

« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 05:45:42 am by HGMuller »

musketeerchess

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
    • Musketeer Chess & Other Chess Variants
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2018, 12:48:48 pm »
I don't know if this is helpful, but I have a primitive EGT generator that can do 3- and 4-men EGT on arbitrary boards, which I use to determine which fairy pieces have mating potential. It prints the DTM statistics of the end-game. I let it run on some of the Musketeer KXK end-games:

Cannon:
        mated    mate
King captures 69384
mates    1752         ( 0.00 sec)
in-1     3564    9360 ( 0.01 sec)
in-2    11280   15064 ( 0.03 sec)
in-3    18592   30388 ( 0.05 sec)
in-4    34552   32112 ( 0.09 sec)
in-5    41032   36048 ( 0.11 sec)
in-6    46660   32284 ( 0.16 sec)
in-7    34932   22216 ( 0.17 sec)
in-8     8676    3064 ( 0.19 sec)
in-9      388      64 ( 0.19 sec)
in-10       0       0 ( 0.19 sec)
won:     249984 (100.0%)
lost:    201428 ( 80.6%)
avg:        5.1 moves

Hawk:
        mated    mate
King captures 58920
mates      16         ( 0.01 sec)
in-1        8     104 ( 0.01 sec)
in-2       64      88 ( 0.01 sec)
in-3       48     456 ( 0.01 sec)
in-4      400     504 ( 0.01 sec)
in-5      368    1824 ( 0.03 sec)
in-6      740    1800 ( 0.03 sec)
in-7      508    2532 ( 0.03 sec)
in-8      984    2076 ( 0.03 sec)
in-9      932    3048 ( 0.03 sec)
in-10    1004    2224 ( 0.05 sec)
in-11     720    2460 ( 0.05 sec)
in-12     816    2248 ( 0.05 sec)
in-13    1656    2584 ( 0.05 sec)
in-14    2804    4132 ( 0.06 sec)
in-15    3432    5804 ( 0.06 sec)
in-16    4436    6668 ( 0.08 sec)
in-17    5608    8196 ( 0.08 sec)
in-18    9460   10284 ( 0.09 sec)
in-19    8008   15180 ( 0.11 sec)
in-20   10792   11952 ( 0.13 sec)
in-21   16248   15952 ( 0.14 sec)
in-22   23676   22932 ( 0.16 sec)
in-23   28688   25796 ( 0.19 sec)
in-24   34720   21480 ( 0.22 sec)
in-25   26236   13024 ( 0.23 sec)
in-26   13976    5880 ( 0.25 sec)
in-27    4852    1712 ( 0.25 sec)
in-28     448     124 ( 0.27 sec)
in-29       0       0 ( 0.27 sec)
won:     249984 (100.0%)
lost:    201648 ( 80.7%)
avg:       21.8 moves

Elephant:
        mated    mate
King captures 68076
mates     124         ( 0.00 sec)
in-1      260     580 ( 0.01 sec)
in-2      568    1136 ( 0.01 sec)
in-3      776    2496 ( 0.01 sec)
in-4     1920    3192 ( 0.01 sec)
in-5     3708    6268 ( 0.03 sec)
in-6     7692    9644 ( 0.03 sec)
in-7    14604   16620 ( 0.06 sec)
in-8    25016   25784 ( 0.09 sec)
in-9    37796   35868 ( 0.13 sec)
in-10   47620   42068 ( 0.16 sec)
in-11   43736   30688 ( 0.19 sec)
in-12   16764    7472 ( 0.20 sec)
in-13     400      92 ( 0.20 sec)
in-14       0       0 ( 0.20 sec)
won:     249984 (100.0%)
lost:    200984 ( 80.4%)
avg:        9.4 moves


Interesting

GothicChessInventor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2018, 03:15:23 pm »
I don't know if this is helpful, but I have a primitive EGT generator that can do 3- and 4-men EGT on arbitrary boards, which I use to determine which fairy pieces have mating potential. It prints the DTM statistics of the end-game.

Hey H.G., nice to chat with you again!

Here's my list with summary information. Maybe we can compare each database entry and verify each others' data? This will be very helpful. I can give you access to my tablebases and the indexing function, then you can literally compare entry per entry and make sure we both have the same result.

For Cannon I have a mate in 15, which differs from your data.
Our Hawk data both showcase mates in 28, so that's good.
Our elephant data both showcase mates in 13, so that's good too.


Code: [Select]
The 3-piece endgame: King + Knight vs. King has no wins for white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Knight vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Knight vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Knight vs. King has no losses when it is black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Bishop vs. King has no wins for white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Bishop vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Bishop vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Bishop vs. King has no losses when it is black to move.


8  . R . . . . . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . k . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . K

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Rook vs. King has a win in 031-ply (016 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Rook vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Rook vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  . . . . . . . .
7  . k . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . R . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . K

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Rook vs. King has a loss in 032-ply (016 moves for black) with black to move.


8  . . . . . . . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . k . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . Q .
1  . . . . . . . K

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Queen vs. King has a win in 019-ply (010 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Queen vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Queen vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  . . . . . . . .
7  . . k . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . Q .
1  . . . . . . . K

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Queen vs. King has a loss in 020-ply (010 moves for black) with black to move.


8  K . k . . . . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . H . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Hawk vs. King has a win in 055-ply (028 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Hawk vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Hawk vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  K . k . . . . .
7  . H . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Hawk vs. King has a loss in 056-ply (028 moves for black) with black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Unicorn vs. King has no wins for white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Unicorn vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Unicorn vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Unicorn vs. King has no losses when it is black to move.


8  K . k . . . . L
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Leopard vs. King has a win in 033-ply (017 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Leopard vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Leopard vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  L . k . . . . K
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Leopard vs. King has a loss in 034-ply (017 moves for black) with black to move.


8  E K . . . . . .
7  . . . k . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Elephant vs. King has a win in 025-ply (013 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Elephant vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Elephant vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  E K . k . . . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Elephant vs. King has a loss in 026-ply (013 moves for black) with black to move.


8  K O . . . . . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . k . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Cannon vs. King has a win in 029-ply (015 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Cannon vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Cannon vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  K O . . . . . .
7  . . . k . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Cannon vs. King has a loss in 030-ply (015 moves for black) with black to move.


8  K . . . . . F .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . k . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Fortress vs. King has a win in 029-ply (015 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Fortress vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Fortress vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  F . . . . . . K
7  . . k . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Fortress vs. King has a loss in 030-ply (015 moves for black) with black to move.


8  S . . . . . . K
7  . . . k . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Spider vs. King has a win in 021-ply (011 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Spider vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Spider vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  . . k . . . S .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  K . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Spider vs. King has a loss in 022-ply (011 moves for black) with black to move.


8  K . . . . A . .
7  . . k . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Archbishop vs. King has a win in 033-ply (017 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Archbishop vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Archbishop vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  K . k . . A . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Archbishop vs. King has a loss in 034-ply (017 moves for black) with black to move.


8  . . . . . . . .
7  . . k . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . C . . . . . K

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Chancellor vs. King has a win in 021-ply (011 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Chancellor vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Chancellor vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  . . k . . . . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . . .
3  . . . . . . . .
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . C . . . . . K

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Chancellor vs. King has a loss in 022-ply (011 moves for black) with black to move.


8  . . . . . . . .
7  . . k . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . K .
3  . . . . . . . D
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Dragon vs. King has a win in 007-ply (004 moves for white) with white to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Dragon vs. King has no wins for black to move.

The 3-piece endgame: King + Dragon vs. King has no losses when it is white to move.


8  . k . . . . . .
7  . . . . . . . .
6  . . . . . . . .
5  . . . . . . . .
4  . . . . . . K .
3  . . . . . . . D
2  . . . . . . . .
1  . . . . . . . .

   a b c d e f g h

The 3-piece endgame: King + Dragon vs. King has a loss in 008-ply (004 moves for black) with black to move.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 03:27:47 pm by GothicChessInventor »

ebinola

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Location: nowhere in particular
    • View Profile
Re: 3-Piece Musketeer Chess Endgame Tablebases Solved
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2018, 04:41:32 pm »
7. ...Kf5
Chess player, amateur writer and on the side shitposter extraordinaire.